Posts by Marvin Shilmer

142

Watchtower getting very Defensive over blood issue publicity....

by kid-A in

with the recent birth of a jw sextuplet "litter" .

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/169562.

possible need for blood transfusions clashes with jehovah's witness belief.

Marvin Shilmer

From the article:

“They have asked for total privacy and have not even allowed a church leader to visit them, according to church elder Roland Alford. However, their faith was one of the few pieces of information they asked the hospital to divulge.”

Now there is an interesting twist in this news item. The parents profess themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses. But they have, reportedly, disallowed visitation from “a church leader.”

Perhaps this couple wants to make an autonomous choice in relation to medical use of blood that they would rather keep between themselves and medical staff.

Marvin Shilmer

4

Deaths Due To Blood Refusal

by Marvin Shilmer in

deaths due to blood refusal.

statistical extrapolation is impractical at this time to estimate total annual deaths related to the watchtower organizations blood doctrine.

however there is sufficient statistical data to conclude annual deaths based on at least one medical presentation.

Marvin Shilmer

Deaths Due To Blood Refusal – Clarification

The source cited by Khadra et al addresses maternal deaths in the United Kingdom. Compared to other nations the UK has advanced medical facilities and treatment options. Hence the statistical extrapolation of 1,455 deaths is extremely conservative given that a significant population of Jehovah’s Witnesses lives in developing countries with medical facilities and treatment options far less capable than what is available in the UK.

Marvin Shilmer

4

Deaths Due To Blood Refusal

by Marvin Shilmer in

deaths due to blood refusal.

statistical extrapolation is impractical at this time to estimate total annual deaths related to the watchtower organizations blood doctrine.

however there is sufficient statistical data to conclude annual deaths based on at least one medical presentation.

Marvin Shilmer

Deaths Due To Blood Refusal

Statistical extrapolation is impractical at this time to estimate total annual deaths related to the Watchtower organization’s blood doctrine. However there is sufficient statistical data to conclude annual deaths based on at least one medical presentation.

A 2002 medical article by Khadra et al states:

“In the CEMD the very high risk of mortality in women who refuse blood transfusion was highlighted. The death rate in this group was 1 per 1,000 maternities compared with an expected incidence of less than 1 per 100, 000 maternities.”(1)

Assuming an annual birth rate of 20 per 1,000, and based on the Watchtower organization’s annual statistics, over the period of 1995 through 2006 there were at least 1,455,000 births among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Assuming these women presented themselves as refusing blood, this translates into 1,455 deaths during this period.

Marvin Shilmer
__________________
Reference:

1. BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth 2002, 2:7 (Full text available at: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2393/2/7 )

184

UPDATE!: THEY ALL ADMITTED EGGING US -Elders now know, heads are rolling!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

oh.... how the saga goes on!!

i swear we could write a novel about our life exiting the watchtower!!

ok..many of you read what happened..our house was egged and so was my sisters car that was parked here, and "frosty" was attacked!!

Marvin Shilmer

Lady Liberty,

You should contact your local district attorney. What you have described qualifies as hate crime.

More than likely your locale has enacted or enhanced hate crime statutes with consequences going far beyond those for misdemeanor vandalism. Since 911 legislators (national, state and local) have found it politically correct to address hate crime by adding teeth, and chances are your local officials are no exception.

You should check this out with your local district attorney. I guarantee an assistant DA who wants to impress his politically appointed boss (the DA) will hop all over a genuine case of religiously motivated hate crime where the criminal defendants are not even voters!

Marvin Shilmer

PS:

40

Are Blood Tranfusions as dangerous and risky and the WTS claim?

by Fisherman in

in and old post by marvin, he provides a link to a wts response to blood treatment.

the wts society spokeman writes that blood transfusions may cause immunological disorders.

since modern medicine gave out thousands of infected blood transfusions in the past causing death and ravaging disease such as aids and incurable and horrible hepatitis to mention some, there is reason for concern.. how safe and effective is blood treatment today?

Marvin Shilmer

Fisherman,

Emotions are trained; phobias are learned. Immerse yourself in good science. If you want reading suggestions on the subject I have plenty to recommend.

At the end of the day, when it comes to healthcare, we all want what is best for whatever condition we have. For those concerned about displeasing God in relation to blood, I recommend the article Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Apostolic Decree to Abstain from Blood. You can read the entire article here: http://web.archive.org/web/20020803100020/www.jwbloodreview.org/AbstainFromBlood.html

If you want to start putting fear of blood based medicines into perspective, I suggest you consider the facts and statistics at the following two web sites:

http://www.hsc.mb.ca/perioperative/patient_info.htm

http://www.ific.org/foodinsight/1999/nd/worthriskfi699.cfm

Marvin Shilmer

2

Watchtower Losses

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtower losses.

over the years of 1949 to 1996 for every 5 persons who were baptized by watchtower representatives 1 ended up inactive.

over the past 10 years (1997 to 2006) for every 3 persons who were baptized by watchtower representatives 1 ended up inactive.. compared to the years 1949 through 1996, in the past 10 years watchtower losses have increased from 20 percent to 34 percent.

Marvin Shilmer

Watchtower Losses

Over the years of 1949 to 1996 for every 5 persons who were baptized by Watchtower representatives 1 ended up inactive.

Over the past 10 years (1997 to 2006) for every 3 persons who were baptized by Watchtower representatives 1 ended up inactive.

Compared to the years 1949 through 1996, in the past 10 years Watchtower losses have increased from 20 percent to 34 percent.

In raw numbers, over the past 10 years, of 2,850,203 individuals baptized 956,941 became inactive.

Of every 3 individuals submitting to Watchtower baptism 2 remain and 1 becomes inactive.

Marvin Shilmer

157

Judicial Committee Preparation

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

judicial committee preparation.

recently a friend inquired about how to best prepare for a judicial committee hearing from the prospective of the subject individual.

at a minimum i recommend the following:.

Marvin Shilmer

Lawrence,

I am glad you have an opinion, and I am glad you have a place like this to share your opinion.

Now, when you have something meaningful to add to the discussion you and I will have something to talk about. I have devoted a large amount of personal time addressing this issue, which is more important to some than others. I have no dog in this particular fight because I have no need to submit to or even observe a judicial committee discuss my life. My remarks have been purely in behalf of others who, for their own reasons, want or need to appear before a judicial committee. You appear not to value this contribution of my time in behalf of others; hence your ridicule. I neither understand nor need to understand this on your part, but it is my observation nevertheless. So be it. Readers can make of this what they will, which is as it should be.

The living can choose how they live, but how they live tends to follow them around, and it affects the extent others want to share themselves, and volunteer their time accordingly. Of all people, you should know this.

What am I talking about? I am talking about beating the WTS at their own game. This has, apparently, when far above your head.

Marvin Shilmer, who writes this under the influence of Chet Atkins

157

Judicial Committee Preparation

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

judicial committee preparation.

recently a friend inquired about how to best prepare for a judicial committee hearing from the prospective of the subject individual.

at a minimum i recommend the following:.

Marvin Shilmer

Minimus,

One can only wonder why you bother to peck at your keyboard as prolifically as you do, yet fail to actually provide answers to actual questions asked, let alone to otherwise communicate.

Marvin Shilmer, who prefers to be understood

157

Judicial Committee Preparation

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

judicial committee preparation.

recently a friend inquired about how to best prepare for a judicial committee hearing from the prospective of the subject individual.

at a minimum i recommend the following:.

Marvin Shilmer

HS writes:

“…to attempt to impress Marvin…”

The surest way to impress Marvin Shilmer is to present sound argumentation. (1) The presenter can be the most inconsiderate and ruthless schmuck in society, but if he presents sound argumentation then he has impressed me sufficiently to have my interest for purposes of gaining education on whatever the subject.

It baffles my mind wondering why so many individuals are so emotionally needy they must feel they are being treated with kid gloves in order to communicate. Why are people so sensitive about learning and sharing? Adults should be able to say what’s on their mind without whining, and still share a pot of good coffee.

Marvin Shilmer
________________
End note:

1. sound argumentation: reckoning that conforms to known and proven forms of logic

157

Judicial Committee Preparation

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

judicial committee preparation.

recently a friend inquired about how to best prepare for a judicial committee hearing from the prospective of the subject individual.

at a minimum i recommend the following:.

Marvin Shilmer

Humorously, Minimus writes:

“Marvin, must you make a series of questions on everything?? I feel like I'm at a deposition or something. If I give you "direct answers", what will you do with the responses then?? Call me a liar? Say that I'm stupid? Cross examine me? I believe the "Pharisees" were lawyers. I don't have to cross examine anyone or vice versa. Been there, done that. Very JWish. Plus, not very endearing......btw, I think I've made your thread a lot more interesting than it would've been.”

I do not make a series of questions on everything, a fact amply evidenced on this very thread of discussion.

The questions are designed to understand what you are trying to communicate by what you write on this forum, specifically on this thread of discussion. There is no need whatsoever for anyone here to answer any question asked, unless we/you want readers to actually understand what we/you are trying to say with what we/you write. On the other hand, when a prolific poster such as yourself declines to provide straightforward answers to straightforward questions directly relevant to an opinion/statement you offer, that too provides insight for understanding the veracity of opinions/statements readers are invited to consider, such as those you offer without bothering to answer forthcoming questions.

Were you to provide answers to the questions asked then, depending on how clear the responses, I would either share my view about what I understand you to be saying or else would see no need to reply and, accordingly, would not reply. This is called communication. You'll find the term in any reputable lexicon.

As for the level of interest in this discussion, it was never intended for entertainment value. It was intended for informational purposes, for those interested in the subject, which is as it should be.

The most JWish thing I can think of is to avoid answering relevant questions at all cost. This is something the WTS inculcates into as many JWs as they possibly can, and it does a pretty good job of it.

Marvin Shilmer